Theory 2 Action Podcast
Theory 2 Action Podcast
CC#40--The Legacy of Pope John Paul II: 20 Years Later
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Twenty years ago today, we bid farewell to a titan of world history and the Catholic Church - Pope John Paul II. His passing marked the end of an extraordinary 26-year pontificate that redefined the papacy, transformed the Church, and helped reshape the geopolitical landscape of our modern world.
Born Karol Wojtyla in Poland, he emerged as the first non-Italian pope since the 16th century at a critical moment when many questioned whether anyone could effectively lead the Church amid the turbulence of modernity. Instead of shrinking from this challenge, he embraced it with unparalleled vigor, traveling to 129 countries, speaking to millions, and addressing contemporary issues from human rights to interfaith dialogue with remarkable insight and courage.
Three books we used for todays podcast
As we commemorate this significant anniversary, John Paul II's legacy offers guidance for our complex times. His canonization in 2014 recognized what millions already knew – that in this remarkable man, we witnessed a rare alignment of personal holiness, intellectual brilliance, and moral courage that changed our world. What might his enduring message "Be not afraid" mean for you today?
Key Points from the Episode:
• First non-Italian pope in 455 years who became the most consequential pontiff in over 400 centuries
• Traveled to 129 countries, engaging with millions and addressing contemporary issues from human rights to interfaith dialogue
• Skillfully navigated implementation of Vatican II reforms, balancing tradition with modernity
• His 1979 visit to Poland sparked the Solidarity movement that helped crack the Iron Curtain
• Historic December 1989 meeting with Gorbachev symbolized communism's surrender to religious freedom
• Canonized in 2014 after crowds chanted "Santo Subito" (Sainthood Now) following his death
• His message "Be not afraid" remains a powerful call to courage, faith and action in uncertain times
Continue reflecting on how St. John Paul II's legacy has shaped your own faith journey, and join us as we pray for his intercession.
Other resources:
CC#10--Nine Days That Changed the World
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20 years ago today, we lost a titan in world history and for the Catholic Church. Let's talk about it on this Catholic Corner.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the Theory to Action podcast, where we examine the timeless treasures of wisdom from the great books in less time, to help you take action immediately and ultimately to create and lead a flourishing life. Now here's your host, David Kaiser.
Speaker 1:Hello, I am David and welcome back to another Catholic Corner, the episode where we take our faith out of the corner and put it squarely in the middle of our life. Today, april 2nd 2025, we are marking 20 years since the passing of St John Paul II. It's hard to overstate the impact of this man who left us on this day some 20 years ago, after nearly presiding as Pope for some 27 years. So today we're going to focus on three big ideas that define his legacy why is he the most consequential Pope in some 400 years? How he reshaped the Church after a seismic shift of the Second Vatican Council and his role in toppling Eastern European communism. So let's take a step back in time and unpack this extraordinary life together. First up, let's talk about John Paul II as the most consequential pope in over four centuries. Now, I get it, it's a bold claim, but hear me out.
Speaker 1:Born to Karol Wojtyla in Poland in 1920, he stepped out on the global stage in 1978 as the first non-Italian pope since the 16th century. His papacy wasn't just long, it was transformative. He traveled over 129 countries, spoke to millions and tackled issues like human rights. There was an interfaith dialogue and he tackled most especially the modern world, and he did so head on. No pope since the Renaissance or the Reformation had that kind of reach or influence. He wasn't just a spiritual leader, he was a global figure as well, who has changed the papacy itself for all eternity. When he died on April 2nd 2005, the world didn't just mourn a pope, it mourned a titan. World didn't just mourn a pope, it mourned a titan. Over four million people flooded Rome for his funeral and billions watched over television and digital media. That kind of impact, it was unmatched, and over some 400 years, like we said.
Speaker 1:In fact, let's go to one of the books we have covered here and is the gold standard for the biography of John Paul II, and it's George Weigel's the second volume, the End and the Beginning. Again, this is volume two of his two-volume tome on this incredible pontiff and perhaps one of the longest chapters from the book titled the Measure of a Pontificate. Weigel spells out in some over 80 pages the highlights and the importance of this papacy. Now I'm just going to pick and choose some important paragraphs in just over three pages, kind of a hit and run tactic, if you will, just to give us a taste and a sampling of this important nugget of wisdom Go on to the book.
Speaker 1:When Carol Joseph Waltiwa was elected to the chair of Peter on October 16th 1978, there were serious questions as to whether any man could successfully carry out the Patrion ministry under the conditions of late modernity. At his election to the papacy, 15 years before Giannavini, battista Montini seemed perfectly prepared to be a successful pope. He was an Italian of deep piety and a good family, learned and gifted in language, with broad cultural interest in the appropriate political contacts and sensibilities, a man who had enjoyed a successful career in both the Roman Curia and a major Italian diocese. Yet it hadn't worked out that way. Not at all.
Speaker 1:The contentiousness of post-Vatican II Catholicism turned the papacy into a decade-and-a-half-long crucifixion for Paul VI. The Church suffered accordingly from what struck many as a deficit of evangelical energy and vigorous leadership in the Holy See. No one doubted Pope Paul's personal holiness, his integrity or his deep love for the church. But in the mid-1970s things seemed to drift and the question inevitably arose among thoughtful Catholics can anyone do this anymore? It was a very good question to ask at the time. It was a very good question to ask at the time. All the natural signs pointed to no to that question. As an answer to that question, let's go back to the book, picking it up on the next page.
Speaker 1:At a moment, then, when the papacy seemed to be in its deepest crisis since Pius VI's death in exile, the College of Cardinals, shocked by the wholly unanticipated death of Pope John Paul I, after a 33-day pontificate, turned to a man who had not followed a conventional pre-papal career path but who came to the office of Peter as one called from a far country, not unlike Peter himself. Yet for all the surprise registered at the election of the first non-Italian pope in 455 years, this first Slavic pope ever, karol Watiwa, brought to the papacy certain qualities that ought to have suggested the possibility of a pontificate of great consequence, and that it certainly was Moving on to our last pull quote from the next page, perhaps most important. He brought to this pontificate a profound conviction that the trajectory of his life was being guided by divine providence, that, as he often put it, if the Holy Spirit had seen fit to call the Archbishop of Krakow to be Bishop of Rome, then that must mean that there had been something in the experience of Krakow and in the experience of Karol Watiwa as Archbishop that would be of use to the Universal Church. He came to the papacy as an outsider and, despite the warmth with which he would be adopted by the people of Rome and the people of Italy, he remained something of an outsider to the end, at least in terms of the ways of the Vatican and the traditional managers of popes. He died in a glow of virtual universal admiration and affection, and his death was felt keenly by many of those from Italy and around the world with whom he had worked closely. Yet almost all those at his death bed were poles, fellow exiles keeping vigil with the man who had come from a far country and who would be buried in his adopted land rather than at home.
Speaker 1:For all that difference of career path and culture, karol Wojtyla Pope John Paul II II created the most consequential pontificate in centuries, one whose impress would be felt on both the church and the world for centuries to come. It was not a pontificate without flaws, for no pontificate ever is and none ever could be, but that John Paul's was a pontificate of exceptional consequence. Not even his harshest critics can deny Amen. And certainly, looking back some 20 years ago today, st John Paul II was a pope of great consequence and, weigel successfully argues, the most consequential pope in over 400 years, going all the way back to the Reformation.
Speaker 1:Now let's talk about the second big piece, the Second Vatican Council. If you're not familiar, it was a big piece of Catholic history in the 1960s. The Second Vatican Council was a massive earthquake for the Catholic Church. It kicked off in 1962 under Pope John XXIII, and it shook up everything how the mass was celebrated, how the church engaged with the modern world and even how it viewed other religions. By the time John Paul II became Pope, the dust was still settling from that earthquake. And what was his mission? How did he see his pontificate shaping up? Part of it was to reinterpret that council and to figure out how to make it work for the world. He didn't reject Vatican II's reforms, but he didn't let them run wild either. Through his encyclicals like Redemptor Hominis and Fetus A Ratio, he steered the church towards a balance, embracing modernity while rooting it deeply in tradition. He saw Vatican II as a gift, but one that needed a steady hand to unpack. For nearly 27 years he shaped how the church lived out that council, and we're still feeling the ripples of that today.
Speaker 1:Let me grab a quick quote from a good series of books on church history. Its title is Reclaiming Catholic History and I believe it's about six or seven volumes. They're all readable, relatively short, but it gives you good highlights from a Catholic perspective throughout the last 2,000 years of church history. They have a great segment throughout all of these books called you Be the Judge, and then they phrase a question at you, and this question is where and how most Catholics misstep in interpreting the Second Vatican Council and why Pope John Paul II was great and incredibly patient in how he led his flock as pope. Let's go to the book to unpack that. You be the judge. You be the judge.
Speaker 1:Isn't Vatican II universally hailed by theological liberals and disparaged by theological conservatives? That is the question. A blow-by-blow account of Vatican II is not possible here, not only for the reasons of space, but also because the historiography of the Council is thoroughly laden with the terms borrowed from secular politics which should not yet constantly do turn up in the accounts of the Council, scholarly as well as popular. The terms liberal and conservative are particularly prominent here and they're particularly misleading. They naturally incline readers to project the left and right of their own national politics into the church's frame of reference, where ideally they would have no meaning and where, in practice, their meaning is at any rate more subtler than in a political sphere.
Speaker 1:Perhaps every churchman should be a conservative in the sense of taking seriously the duty to preserve and to put forward anew the timeless doctrine of the church. And perhaps every churchman should also be a liberal in the sense of avoiding panicked overreaction to novel ways of expressing that doctrine and of stressing education over punishment when theologians go wrong. And perhaps also in the sense of reminding us that while social service will never be the church's primary mission, it is nonetheless an inseparable part of that mission. But the ironic scenario has never played out since the concepts of liberal and conservative left and right became current and since the 1960s. Take blame for so much. Let's cut them out, or let's cut some slack to them as well here. Widen the lens, then, and note that the impossible, note that the imposition of human categories on the church has been going on basically since the French Revolution at the end of the 18th century. Everything was polarized after that. And further down the page we read this George Weigel is probably the closest we have to an umpire-like observer of the council.
Speaker 1:To this it would be objected that he is openly affiliated with conservative think tanks and journals. Nevertheless, his analysis of the council goes beyond liberal versus conservative scorekeeping and tries to identify issues at stake that are not easily subject to politicization. For example, to what extent was the council about who's in charge issues who's in charge, the Pope, national Bishops Conference, the laity, parish committees, activists or interest groups? Did the council mean to focus on these questions and if it did, who and what did it decide? Or was it about re-energizing the church for an evangelical and evangelizing mission that had to become different than it had ever been before? It takes a mind far gone in activism to shoehorn these questions into the liberal-slash-conservative framework. Weigel once remarked, and has made similar points on many occasions, that John XXIII quote did not intend to set off a 25-year cat-and-dog fight about who's in charge in the Catholic Church unquote. Rather, he he intended his council to be a Pentecostal experience that, as he put it in his opening address to the council, would impel throughout the church a new sense of missionary or, as we would say today, evangelical vitality.
Speaker 1:Be a better place to begin looking at the meaning of the Second Vatican Council than in the Pope's public declarations of what it meant for it. After that meaning can be found in the form of its final written declarations that were approved and promulgated by Pope Paul VI, complicated by Pope Paul VI. So, in fact, I think this book nails it the correct interpretation points for all of us living nowadays in a post-Vatican II church and in a post-Vatican II world that we need to turn constantly to the actual written text and the public declarations to help pull apart and interpret that counsel in its fullest and most authentic statements. Now, that being said, I just discovered a nugget of a book not only a nugget of wisdom, but a nugget of a book, and the title is the Sources of Renewal, and it was written by John Paul II. And let me just read an excerpt of this book, because this is the man we want to celebrate 20 years after his passing.
Speaker 1:Going to the back of this book, sources of Renewal, is Carol Watiwa's intense study of the Second Vatican Council's documents and his ambitious vision of how the council might be best implemented. Initially published in 1972 and revised after Watiwa's election to the papacy, sources of Renewal lays out the foundation of how Watiwa, first as Archbishop of Krakow and then as Pope, sought to translate the constitutions, the decrees and the declarations of the Second Vatican Council into the faith and life of the Church. This translation and implementation, he comments, ought to be considered as quote, the response of faith to the word of God as it proceeded. From that council, the teaching of Vatican II stands revealed as the image proper to our time of the church's self-realization and, to this end, sources of renewal, quotes copiously and studies closely the documents of Vatican II with the intent of answering firmly those questions which press upon all the baptized what does it mean to be a Christian? What does it mean to live in the church and in this modern world? In the church and in this modern world? And we could pull apart many, many quotes and talk about the 27 years of John Paul II's papacy, but I think we're going to hold off. Because that question what does it mean to be a Christian and to live in the church and in the modern world? Because isn't that the question that many of us ask in our own lives? So this nugget of a book I don't have it in my hands yet, it's already been shipped it's going to unpack for all of us listeners, so we can better understand and more live out our faith in this chaotic modern world and, more importantly, read the interpretation of the Second Vatican Council through the lens of St John Paul II.
Speaker 1:This is the book, this is the implementation book that he wrote when he was Archbishop of Krakow, in Polish. So as Archbishop, he attended the Second Vatican Council and at the end of the Second Vatican Council he went back to his homeland, a communist state, and back to his bishopric and he, having just witnessed all the events at the council, he took the text to part and practically wrote down how to implement this council within his own diocese. Fascinating stuff. Never before seemed. Weigel would not have even captured this in his two-volume biography. It was not translated into English yet. Now maybe I should actually look this up. Maybe Weigel captured this by reading the Polish interpretation and translation, but this is the first time the book has been published in English. So this is going to be a fascinating, fascinating review.
Speaker 1:So stay tuned and keep listening to the podcast. But suffice it to say John Paul II, for his 27 years, wrestled the interpretation of the Second Vatican Council and many believe he wrestled that interpretation down to a very good and a very authentic way of looking at all those documents, decrees and constitutions, especially coming out of the chaotic 60s and chaotic 70s. So again, stay tuned, keep listening to this podcast. We'll certainly cover sources of renewal Coming out of the chaotic 60s and chaotic 70s. So again, stay tuned, keep listening to this podcast. We'll certainly cover sources of renewal.
Speaker 1:And now, quickly and thirdly, if that's a word. Thirdly, not sure if that's a word, but maybe the most dramatic chapter of John Paul II's story is his role in the downfall of Eastern European communism, because for him that was personal. Growing up in Poland under Nazi occupation and then Soviet control, he knew oppression firsthand, it was in his face. When he became Pope he didn't just pray about it, he acted on it. In 1979, he went back and visited Poland and that was a spark which we have covered here on this podcast. Many times the main episode is nine days, many times the main episode is nine days, those nine days in June, we'll put that in the show notes. But that was the spark that set a fire, a prairie fire of sorts, perhaps a fire of the Holy Spirit to end that evil empire root and branch.
Speaker 1:John Paul II spoke to millions in Poland, telling them to be not afraid, and suddenly people believed that they could stand up, that they could have religious freedom. That trip fueled the Solidarity Movement, which became the crack in the Iron Curtain, and historians still to this day argue about how much credit he deserves. But even the Soviet leaders admitted. Even Mikhail Gorbachev admitted he was the problem they could not ignore. By the time the Berlin Wall fell in 1989, john Paul II's voice was firm, faithful and fearless. He had helped to topple a system that seemed unbreakable, and he should get most of the credit because most historians overlook his contributions still to this day. Regardless, it's no wonder some of them call him a warrior of freedom. And speaking of freedom, I would like to call the attention to this often overlooked portion of history, and I will do this from a book titled A Pope and a President, written by Paul Kengor, because it details more acutely than any other books the real power and the extreme virtue of John Paul II as a statesman. And to make my point, let's go to the book.
Speaker 1:Both Ronald Reagan and John Paul II had seen Poland as the linchpin in the dissolution of the Soviet Empire. In Bill Clark's words, they were right. The dissolution began in Kowaltywicz, poland, months before the Berlin Wall fell. John Paul II was enjoying this as much as Ronald Reagan was, but for the pontiff. There was no retirement from his post, there was no term limits, the chair of St Peter was his until death and he seemed to pick up the mantle from Reagan in directly dealing with Gorbachev. Reagan's summits with the Soviet leader were over. Summits with the Soviet leader were over, but for John Paul II it was time for his first personal summit.
Speaker 1:On December 1st 1989, three weeks after the Berlin Wall came down, the world witnessed a shocking sight A Soviet leader at the Vatican smiling and shaking hands with the Pope. Mikhail Gorbachev came to Rome to meet with Pope John Paul II. It was the first ever encounter between a pope and a Soviet leader. Stalin or Lenin would have shaken hands with a pope only when hell froze over. The meeting came to pass on December 1st. The New York Times captured the moment this way For the first time ever, the leader of an atheistic Soviet communism meets the Vicar of Christ. When Gorbachev met the Pope at the Vatican's Apostolic Palace, he appeared uncomfortable. Many observers thought he looked overwhelmed in awe amid the majesty of the moment and the place. Years later he would describe it as a beautiful atmosphere.
Speaker 1:The two men met in the library, taking opposite sides of a wooden desk. For the first five minutes they were alone and spoke in Russian. After that, interpreters entered, with the pontiff alternating between Polish and Italian, while Gorbachev continued speaking in Russian. The meeting would last about an hour and 15 minutes. 20 years later, the Russian government released a transcript of what the two said, with the translators present. The transcript runs some 3,600 words in length. The Soviet leader did most of the talking. Gorbachev began by expressing his appreciation for this meeting of the two Slavic people and by thanking the Pana for his peacemaking efforts. The Pope humbly replied we are trying. He thanked Gorbachev for his own efforts at peace.
Speaker 1:John Paul II made many references to fundamental human rights, including freedom of conscience, from which stems religious freedom. From which stems religious freedom. He used the word conscious seven times in the dialogue. He also affirmed an individual's freedom of choice. A person becomes a believer through free choice. It is impossible to make someone believe. He added. Of course, freedom of conscience has to extend to Baptists, protestants, jews as well as Muslims. Gorbachev seemed to agree. He told the Pope I have listened to your words very carefully and, from my side, would like to speak about three concerns peace, our perestroika and connection to it, the freedom of conscience and religion, but Gorbachev veered off into a discourse on moral relativism, as he often did with Reagan during their summits.
Speaker 1:Eventually, gorbachev's meandering discourse in this area carried on at length. The Pope got in merely three-word interruption before the Soviet leader went on and on. The pontiff must have sensed that this was not the time for a tutorial. Gorbachev finally changed the subject to something the Pope would have appreciated much more. I would also like to say that the problems of your homeland, poland, are very close to me. The Soviet leader said In the recent years, I have done and will continue to do everything I can to ensure good relations between Poland, russia and the Soviet Union. John Paul II responded I thank you on behalf of my homeland.
Speaker 1:The Soviet leader moved to more practical matters and took an important step forward when he said I hope that after this meeting, our relations will gain new momentum and I assume that at some point in the future you could visit the USSR. This was a major offer. No Pope had ever set foot in Moscow. John Paul II did not miss a beat. If this were allowed, he replied. I would be very glad to Note his carefully stated response. Who needed to allow the visit, not only the Kremlin, but also the leader of the Russian Orthodox Church. That latter would turn out to be the obstacle.
Speaker 1:At the end of the meeting, as they left the library, the two men connected with Raza Gorbachev, the General Secretary's hardcore Marxist-Leninist wife. Gorbachev, now much more relaxed, said to his wife with a grin Raza, I introduce you to His Holiness Pope John Paul II, who is the highest moral authority on earth, besides being a fellow Slav like us. The pontiff affidavitably replied yes, I am the first Slav Pope, he added. I am sure that providence paved the way for this meeting. When the two men spoke to the press, john Paul II seemed to sense the great spiritual and political import at hand.
Speaker 1:George Weigel described the Pope's hands as trembling with emotion when he came to the podium to speak. Others noticed his shaking hands. This was not one assumes an early onset of Parkinson's disease. Rather, the Holy Father seemed overcome by the moment. To say that Gorbachev had come asking for forgiveness for the Communist Party was probably overstating things. For forgiveness for the Communist Party was probably overstating things. But, as Weigel wrote, the December 1st meeting was symbolically a moment of surrender. The Communist war against Karawatiwa and his people, waged for decades, was over. Perhaps this was why the Pope's hands trembled.
Speaker 1:And so, on this April 2nd 2025, we look back at April 2nd 2005. 20 years ago today, john Paul II's journey ended. When the faithful appeared after his passing in St Peter's Square, it was packed with hundreds of thousands of pilgrims all chanting Santo Subito, saint Now, and they eventually got their wish. John Paul II was canonized in 2014. And as we look back from this perch 2025, these three threads stand out A pope who redefined the papacy, a leader who guided the church through Vatican II and its aftershocks, and a man who helped to bring down communism.
Speaker 1:His death just wasn't a loss. It was a moment that crystallized his life's work. What would he say to us now, two decades later? Maybe that same line that he was always saying to all of us who was alive back then Be not afraid. It's a call to courage, a call to faith, a call to action. It's a call to courage, a call to faith, a call to action, whether we are facing division or uncertainty, or a world that is always changing fast, it seems.
Speaker 1:What does John Paul II's legacy mean to you? Perhaps you can reflect on his life and how he shaped your life. If you were alive, perhaps you can think back. Where were you in St Peter's Square that day? Or were you watching from afar? Like me, I can still remember where I was when I got the news. I was upstairs in my bedroom in my townhome outside Columbus, ohio, and you knew when you got the news that there would never be another one like him.
Speaker 1:I'm always fond of that famous phrase that was said of Abraham Lincoln when he passed into eternity. I believe it was Secretary of State Edwin Stanton said the next morning when Lincoln eventually passed away. And the dawn of that morning, stanton said he now belongs to the ages. Well, 20 years ago today, john Paul II belonged to the ages and the churches declared him a saint. So in today's Catholic Corner, let us remember St John Paul II. Let us remember his power, his powerful, powerful example of just one person and how they can change and shape the world.
Speaker 1:So let us pray for his intercession on our behalf to God the Father. Let us pray oh, st John Paul II, grant us your blessing from heaven's window. Bless the church which you have loved and served and guided, encouraging her to walk the roads of the world so to carry Jesus to everyone and everyone to Jesus. Bless the youth, who have been your great passion. Guide them so that they may dream again, raise their eyes on high and find the light that illumines the meaning of all life here below.
Speaker 1:Bless all families. Bless each family. You have foreseen the assault of Satan against this precious and indispensable spark of heaven which God has ignited upon earth. St John Paul, with your prayer, protect the family and each life which blooms in the family. Pray for the whole world still marked by tensions, by war and by injustice. You have fought against war by summoning dialogue and by sowing love. Pray for us so that we may be tireless sowers of peace. O St John Paul II, from heaven's window, where we see you alongside Mary, make the blessing of God come down upon us. Amen. And as always, folks keep fighting the good fight.
Speaker 3:Thank you for joining us. We hope you enjoyed this Theory to Action podcast. Be sure to check out our show page at teammojoacademycom, where we have everything we discussed in this podcast, as well as other great resources. Until next time, keep getting your mojo on. Thank you.